The Three Rs

The Three R’s

[Music]

Kristin: Hi, everyone. It's time to welcome our first guest, Jordan Taitingfong. Jordan is going to help us to understand what challenging behavior really is and ways to support ourselves and our children as we kind of work through strategies. Welcome, Jordan.

Jordan Taitingfong: Hello. Jordan: Hi, it's good to be back.

Kristin: So good to have you.

Jordan: Yeah.

Dawn: So, we know that part of what you do for your job is actually go in and provide technical assistance to teachers who are struggling with some challenging behaviors – like, you were just doing this today. So, when you are having those conversations, how do you provide support? What do you do?

Jordan: I get called in for that top part of the pyramid. I get called in for those intensive supports to help make a plan that are really individualized. But I always start at the bottom of the pyramid because usually by the time I get called in, these behaviors have been happening for a while, and that relationship might be affected, right? And we want to make sure that we start with relationships. What is that like in the classroom? How's their communities? Is the kid a part of a community? And then thinking about: Did we teach them social skills? What have we done already? What have we tried to do? That middle part of the pyramid before we get to the tip top of the pyramid because we need those strong practices in place to support us even if we do get to that top part of the pyramid.

Dawn: Right, a foundation. Kristin: Exactly.

Jordan: It's that piece that all kids get, right? That bottom part of the pyramid, all kids get that piece. And then some kids will need a little bit more than that, maybe some individual social skills instruction, maybe some groups around those sorts of skills. And then there's a very few amount of kids that are going to need that really high level of individualized support. So, I always want to start from the bottom and work my way up because a lot of times, a lot of our issues can be solved with those bottom parts of the pyramid first.

Dawn: Right, like one-to-two kids in the class.

Jordan: Right, I mean, it's so intensive that you really can't have six, seven, eight kids in your class on a plan, right? It's not possible. So, how can we change the whole environment to make it work so that you really do only have a few kids.

Kristin: Just a few kids who really do need that extra. OK, that sounds good. So, when we're thinking about those few kids who need that extra intensive supports, how are we defining challenging behavior?

Jordan: Well, the challenging behavior I get called in for is most often the behavior that's most challenging to the adults in the room, right?

Kristin: That makes sense.

Jordan: Absolutely. We've all been there. It's when the classroom management is hard when a kid might be having some meltdowns. It's really loud, externalizing behaviors.

Dawn: The one that makes me look like I'm not doing a good job.

Jordan: Exactly. Exactly. And the ones that kind of get us to our wits end, right? Those big externalizing behaviors. And I get called in for those, and those often also end in some challenging behaviors from the adults, which is suspension and expulsion.

Dawn: Yes, those are adult behaviors, aren't they?

Jordan: Adult behavior and response to some challenging kid behaviors, right? Kristin: You're in a tough spot when you're called in for that.

Jordan: Right, right, trying to figure out ... And it's really about supporting the team and the kid, right? So, when we're thinking of making that plan for teachers and students, we want to create a shared definition for challenging behavior, right? What is it that we're talking about so that we can figure out where to start from with that? The one that I use the most often is that challenging behavior is any repeated pattern of behavior that interferes with or is at risk of interfering with the child's optimal learning or engagement in pro-social interactions with peers and adults.

Dawn: OK, [Laughter] a lot said in that definition.

Jordan: Yeah, it's a lot of words and there is a lot to unpack there. And I think one of the things that it's important for us to do is reflect on those words and unpack it. What's an optimal learning environment for me may not be the same as what's an optimal learning environment for you, right? And so, as a teacher, what I find to be a challenging behavior may differ than from what you find to be a challenging behavior, right? So, really having that conversation so we can see where our beliefs and our and our culture impact how we're defining what's challenging in our classrooms, right? Which means that some of the behaviors might be short term. Some might be long term. Some might be infrequent, and some might be really frequent.

They look different. It just depends on how it's impacting the classroom and impacting the individual student.

Kristin: And children in classroom too.

Jordan: And the other children the culture of the classroom, right? Yes, absolutely.

Dawn: So, we can focus on strengthening the base of the pyramid for most children, and that will be enough to support them but what can we do when we get to the top for those very few children?

Jordan: Right. A few kids will need more. You're right. All kids, we got that, some kids we've got, and then a few kids are going to need that top part of the pyramid. And there are specific intervention strategies. When I go in, I'll do a functional behavior assessment. I'll do a behavior intervention plan. There's other individualized strategies that we can do, but there's a few things that everyone can do regardless of your experience with challenging behaviors or assessment.

Dawn: That you do first.

Jordan: That you can do first. Yeah. One of the first things you can do is reflect and really thinking about, like we said before, why is it challenging for you? Why is it challenging for that child? Is it something that we need a plan for right away because maybe they're running out of the building? It's only happened twice, it's not very frequent, but we need a plan for it right now, right?

Kristin: It's very, very intense when it happens.

Jordan: Or maybe it's something that's been more ongoing, like it's the kid who comes to circle and sits down but doesn't ever participate and isn't listening so is never really getting access to it. And they're not learning, right? It's also a challenging behavior.

Kristin: Yeah, OK. Absolutely. And when we have that reflection time, it helps us think about where some of our biases might lie, what we believe about behavior, what we believe about discipline, because we all believe something different. And it helps us to work on shifting our perspective, right? A lot of this work is about shifting our perspective and recognizing that a challenging behavior is the kid trying to tell us something and it's a lack of skill, right? So, what do I need to teach them? And then you can review. So, what have you already done? Did those strategies work? If you felt like they only worked for a little while, what might have changed, right? Reconsider that bottom part of the pyramid. Do I have a relationship with this kid? Has it gotten to a point where we're avoiding each other, right?

Kristin: Oh, absolutely.

Jordan: Which impacts our relationships. Because when we get to the top, we want to make sure that that strong foundation is there to hold us up and so that we can keep going and supporting that child because it's hard, and it's not going to work right away. So, we have to get to a point where we're invested in it and we've made a plan and we've tried a lot of other things as well.

Kristin: Well, yeah, so when you're using and when teachers are using those strategies at the top of the pyramid, it can feel so overwhelming because you feel like I've tried all these things. I don't know, but this is getting a little more intensive supports. It can feel so overwhelming. It can be hard for the child who might be getting in trouble, getting punished for their behavior.

It's hard for the teacher. The teacher, he or she, might feel ... Do I have these skills, right? So, it seems like practicing some breathing, some resiliency is really important for teachers to kind of carry on through this process.

Jordan: Absolutely, I think resiliency is really important for this work because challenging behavior is one of the number one reasons that teachers identify the reason as why they burn out, right? Kristin and

Dawn: Yes.

Jordan: When we feel like we're failing. And oftentimes when I go in to support teachers, you are secluded, you're doing your own thing. You're not seeing other people teach. You're having a day to day where it's really hard and you feel like you're unsuccessful. So, I think the first thing is just owning that it's hard and also understanding that it isn't just you, right? Kristin and

Dawn: Yes. It's all of us, right? Everyone has these experiences with kids, right? Kristin: Experienced teachers, new teachers.

Jordan: Yes, absolutely. I think another thing you can do to support your resiliency is what people are doing right now by watching this, right? So, doing some professional development, reaching out, looking for more resources because it's going to build your skills, which we all feel more confident. One of the recommendations I make for kids right away if they have challenging behaviors is what's a skill we can teach them so they feel more confident. It's the same for us as adults, right? And changing our perspective that, again, this behavior is working for this child. How can I make something else work for them, right? And it allows us to be lifelong learners. I really go into this work thinking that I am continuing to learn as I go through it, and it would be really boring if I knew everything at this point. It's not possible, so let's keep learning, right?

Kristin: That's the fun of it, really.

Jordan: And then my last recommendation is to always have a go-to activity to do when things are really hard.

Dawn: A go-to happy one?

Jordan: A go-to happy activity, find-your-joy activity.

Kristin: OK, what was yours, Jordan? Jordan: Mine was a dance party.

Kristin: OK. OK.

Jordan: And we would scrap our lesson plan for the day when it was real rough and have a dance party with strobe light, boombox, the whole nine. But it's part of finding your joy in it again, because we work with little kids, and school should be fun, and we should be happy. And when we get into the nitty gritty of this work, we forget that. So, what is a thing we can do to bring that joy back into the classroom?

Dawn: It also takes you back to the relationships, right? We're connecting through something fun.

Jordan: Absolutely.

Kristin: That's fantastic.

Dawn: Jordan, I so appreciate all these key messages.